First time driving Snow Tires + first time driving tuned sports car = set me straight

[BMW135pls]

I recently got brand new Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 snow tires on my 135i with JB4 and my driving experience has changed GREATLY. I did some searching on the internet, but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. The JB4 map I'm using is map 1 which has a boost target of 13psi.



I got the new tires installed on new steel wheels instead of the rims that came with the car for a few reasons:

-The winters where I live are really bad, and roads aren't taken very good care of, so if I end up bashing a brand new steel wheel I will have, by my calculations, roughly 39% less feelings of remorse than if I had bashed up a brand new high end molded rim costing 3x more.

-I made the change from run flats to "real" tires, and it is difficult to find "real" tires to fit the stock rims, especially in a snow tire. The new steelies are 17x7, a change from the stock 18x8.5 for the front and 18x9.6 for the rear. Quite a difference. I plan on going back to the stock rims for when I get new summer tires, but for winters, this is what I have.



So here we are, a JB4 map 1 tuned 135i twin turbo car, a driver whose only experience driving a performance car was with a JB4 tuned 135i on bald summer run flats, and brand new snow tires on steel wheels... I'm confused.



So from limited testing (driving to and from work roughly 15mi away for about a week) I can tell that the car definitely feels a whole lot of different through my daily commute. My first days driving it were chock full of looking at the stability control system light flashing at me on dry pavement and telling me I'm being a bad boy... even when I'm trying very hard to be a nice boy and just follow traffic. Apparently snow tires can't handle torque very well at all? I am now afraid of accelerating in a sporty manner. I did the drive at 60mph and shake the wheel test, and where the car on summer tires was firm, quick, and glued, the same car on snows and steelies was noticeably slower and looser feeling, lagging behind the wheel. I'm now afraid of handling in a sporty manner.

I did find an article about new tires in general and found that new tires of any kind need to be driven for a few hundred miles before they properly "break in" and as I drive them more, I do seem to be seeing the bad boy light come on less and less, but I'm still unsure if that's due to the tires breaking in, or me getting used to driving them? On my second day, I had to go into the JB4 programming and change the gear 1 boost limit to 3psi and gear 2 boost limit to 6psi. I eventually found that just starting in 2nd is probably a better idea, so I've been doing that the past 2 days.

There's also the question of sportiness and fun. The tires I've installed are obviously very good in winter conditions, but how do they fare in a test of sport? If someone wanted to race from a light on summers, I just put the car in gear and wait for the green. Now if someone wants to race I feel like it's not even an option at all, and backing down is not in my personality. What would happen if I launched on snows? I don't get such a very confident feeling from driving on them semi-normally, so I'm afraid to push them. Are we talking about a situation where the car can launch pretty well, but it wears the tires quickly, or are we talking about a situation where the car might go far enough out of control that it's not even worth putting 13psi of boost and ~320WHP to the rear tires? I haven't even disabled stability control since getting the new tires because I'm too scared to. The car has never gone out of control since getting new tires, the worst that's happened was seeing the bad boy light, which happens too frequently to ignore, but I'm afraid of the time when it does go out of control, because maybe it's not as easy to compensate for as summer tires are?




Bonus Round: I've read that the JB4 in map 5 (autotuning map) adapts to tires and driving conditions in a realtime manner. Do you think I would benefit from using map 5 with my new, apparently very high maintenance, tires?

[dtwyim]

What size?

I run 225/45/17 Blizzaks LM60 on a stock car and can still light them up in the dry.

It is not performance ice and snow. Not very good on dry pavement. Also, it is not that cold out yet, might feel slightly better when it is colder.

Decent in the snow.

Drive like a granny.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by dtwyim

What size?

I run 225/45/17 Blizzaks LM60 on a stock car and can still light them up in the dry.

It is not performance ice and snow. Not very good on dry pavement. Also, it is not that cold out yet, might feel slightly better when it is colder.

Decent in the snow.

Drive like a granny.

205/50/17, 93T.

[gmartan]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

I recently got brand new Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 snow tires on my 135i with JB4 and my driving experience has changed GREATLY. I did some searching on the internet, but can't seem to find what I'm looking for. The JB4 map I'm using is map 1 which has a boost target of 13psi.



I got the new tires installed on new steel wheels instead of the rims that came with the car for a few reasons:

-The winters where I live are really bad, and roads aren't taken very good care of, so if I end up bashing a brand new steel wheel I will have, by my calculations, roughly 39% less feelings of remorse than if I had bashed up a brand new high end molded rim costing 3x more.

-I made the change from run flats to "real" tires, and it is difficult to find "real" tires to fit the stock rims, especially in a snow tire. The new steelies are 17x7, a change from the stock 18x8.5 for the front and 18x9.6 for the rear. Quite a difference. I plan on going back to the stock rims for when I get new summer tires, but for winters, this is what I have.



So here we are, a JB4 map 1 tuned 135i twin turbo car, a driver whose only experience driving a performance car was with a JB4 tuned 135i on bald summer run flats, and brand new snow tires on steel wheels... I'm confused.



So from limited testing (driving to and from work roughly 15mi away for about a week) I can tell that the car definitely feels a whole lot of different through my daily commute. My first days driving it were chock full of looking at the stability control system light flashing at me on dry pavement and telling me I'm being a bad boy... even when I'm trying very hard to be a nice boy and just follow traffic. Apparently snow tires can't handle torque very well at all? I am now afraid of accelerating in a sporty manner. I did the drive at 60mph and shake the wheel test, and where the car on summer tires was firm, quick, and glued, the same car on snows and steelies was noticeably slower and looser feeling, lagging behind the wheel. I'm now afraid of handling in a sporty manner.

I did find an article about new tires in general and found that new tires of any kind need to be driven for a few hundred miles before they properly "break in" and as I drive them more, I do seem to be seeing the bad boy light come on less and less, but I'm still unsure if that's due to the tires breaking in, or me getting used to driving them? On my second day, I had to go into the JB4 programming and change the gear 1 boost limit to 3psi and gear 2 boost limit to 6psi. I eventually found that just starting in 2nd is probably a better idea, so I've been doing that the past 2 days.

There's also the question of sportiness and fun. The tires I've installed are obviously very good in winter conditions, but how do they fare in a test of sport? If someone wanted to race from a light on summers, I just put the car in gear and wait for the green. Now if someone wants to race I feel like it's not even an option at all, and backing down is not in my personality. What would happen if I launched on snows? I don't get such a very confident feeling from driving on them semi-normally, so I'm afraid to push them. Are we talking about a situation where the car can launch pretty well, but it wears the tires quickly, or are we talking about a situation where the car might go far enough out of control that it's not even worth putting 13psi of boost and ~320WHP to the rear tires? I haven't even disabled stability control since getting the new tires because I'm too scared to. The car has never gone out of control since getting new tires, the worst that's happened was seeing the bad boy light, which happens too frequently to ignore, but I'm afraid of the time when it does go out of control, because maybe it's not as easy to compensate for as summer tires are?




Bonus Round: I've read that the JB4 in map 5 (autotuning map) adapts to tires and driving conditions in a realtime manner. Do you think I would benefit from using map 5 with my new, apparently very high maintenance, tires?

In short, you bought the right snow tire for the type of winter you described. They will not grip well on dry roads or corner well. The separated rubber blocks that make them good in the snow will stand on edge under hard acceleration or cornering pressure so there will be little rubber on the road for traction. Drive slower and leave the nanny engaged.

[IEDEI]

your traction control light gets triggered by the flex in the tires because they are soft.....not necessarily because you are actually slipping. The Hakkapeliitta R2s I ran last winter were even softer than blizzaks. Even the slightest throttle even at speed would trigger the lights....no big deal.

When it comes to winter....safety is the key. Being able to handle like a sports car is not.

[edisapimp]

It's still October in NJ as far as I know, and it was over 60 degrees this weekend.

[IEDEI]

Originally Posted by edisapimp

It's still October in NJ as far as I know, and it was over 60 degrees this weekend.

YEP. NYC here. there is no way I am putting snow tires on until the temps get into the 40s and 50s....usually right before thanksgiving.

Putting them on now is a waste....they will also get used up very quickly in high temps.

[jkoral]

Why would you buy T-rated snows? I've never used anything less than H-rated "high performance" snows for the New England winters. I'll gladly give up some snow and ice performance for better dry road manners, which in major metro areas, is the road condition within 24 hours after a snow.

Years ago, when I was driving a much slower BMW, someone recommended me to lookup the recommended snow tires Porsche recommends and use those. It's served me well.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/accessori...sanddownloads/

[red914]

My 1er is completely stock. I bought it in the middle of last winter with a set of 205/50 R17 Michelin X-Ice on all four wheels. When summer came along I definitely noticed a difference with the wider Bridgestone runflats. Yesterday I put the winters back on but I forgot how much of a difference there is. First of all the ride is a lot smoother on the thicker/squishier winters. Secondly there is a massive loss in grip on the rear end on dry pavement. It was well above freezing and the road was dry but it was easy to break traction with not a lot of throttle. That said, when the snow hits the ground the skinny X-Ice tires will serve me a lot better than the summer tires. Also, just handling the two tires yesterday when it was 9 deg C (48 F) the summer tires felt very hard and stiff, while the winters felt quite soft and flexible. When it drops well below freezing (here we get to -40 at times) the summer tires would be harder than a hockey puck... and would slide like a puck too.

It's almost like driving a different car but it is still a lot of fun. I would much rather drive in the winter with a less grip (compared to summer tires in summer weather) than park the car and drive a beater. Still gonna be faster and more fun than the beater.

[prcsa77]

+1^

[dtwyim]

Originally Posted by BMW135pls

205/50/17, 93T.

You went narrow.

Good in the snow, bad on dry pavement.

[darkrom]

I've run those tires on many cars. Great in the snow, horrible when its not. You end up having to drive real slow and careful in the dry, but its worth it to make it threw a New England winter.

[JimD]

Seems like good warm up for winter conditions. There is no big secret but you have to take it easier when you have less fraction. People have accidents in rain because they don't slow down. Around here, 2 inches of snow is a big storm and there are lots of wrecks. But if you adjust your driving, you can go anywhere with only a couple of inches down.

[ejm3]

Its too early to put snows on. You will just wear them out way faster than need be.

[BMW135pls]

Originally Posted by ejm3

Its too early to put snows on. You will just wear them out way faster than need be.

I honestly didn't expect them to be this different, next year I will wait longer for sure. The main reason for putting them on now was the condition of the tires that came off, they were summer run flats with no tread left at all. Every day I was compensating for traction loss and frankly just wanted to say goodbye to runflats.

[chris82]

Maybe try the LM model next time

[JB007]

Same here.
Big sacrife on handling and dry traction, but can drive through any winter conditions without any problems.

With tires, It's always about trade offs.

Originally Posted by IEDEI

YEP. NYC here. there is no way I am putting snow tires on until the temps get into the 40s and 50s....usually right before thanksgiving.

Putting them on now is a waste....they will also get used up very quickly in high temps.

[PA135i]

This weekend it's going down to 30 for Saturday and Sunday nights. I might be doing my switch in the next two weeks. I'll need a new set .. so this time I'm going for snow traction vs. performance.

[MuNkY6913]

I put WS60's on my stock rims (245/40/18 all around) and ran them for 2 winters. I definitely waited until daytime temps started to be consistently around 30. Always had a adjustment period when switching to and from. With the winters on, I learned to back down from races because I wasn't going to get any traction anyways and I was just chewing up the tires. So it was lose lose. Learned that after the first month of having them. Mine still seemed to handle ok. Felt like a boat but still gripped enough to do a little spirited driving from time to time. They're for sale, on the rims, in our region. After 2 winters, using them only after daytime temps got low, the fronts still have 10-11 32nds on them and the rears have 7-8. Thats why I got a square setup, to rotate them. but now i have a beater which i think is way better. Bought a car for less than what it costs to get winter tires and have them mounted and balanced. The feeling you get when you run into snow banks or anything else and it doesn't matter, is incredible. car cost $900 and lasted 2 years so far. cant say no to that. work is only 2 miles from the house so that helps. the stupid thing only runs on 3 out of 4 cylinders. guess who doesn't care. haha.

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by PA135i

This weekend it's going down to 30 for Saturday and Sunday nights. I might be doing my switch in the next two weeks. I'll need a new set .. so this time I'm going for snow traction vs. performance.

Got a set for sale! obviously you can make me an offer. With the Msport wheels that you dont have to worry about messing up cause 2 are already scratched. The tpms will work for your car too. ready to get bolted on and go.

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1022870

[chris82]

Originally Posted by MuNkY6913

I put WS60's on my stock rims (245/40/18 all around) and ran them for 2 winters. I definitely waited until daytime temps started to be consistently around 30. Always had a adjustment period when switching to and from. With the winters on, I learned to back down from races because I wasn't going to get any traction anyways and I was just chewing up the tires. So it was lose lose. Learned that after the first month of having them. Mine still seemed to handle ok. Felt like a boat but still gripped enough to do a little spirited driving from time to time. They're for sale, on the rims, in our region. After 2 winters, using them only after daytime temps got low, the fronts still have 10-11 32nds on them and the rears have 7-8. Thats why I got a square setup, to rotate them. but now i have a beater which i think is way better. Bought a car for less than what it costs to get winter tires and have them mounted and balanced. The feeling you get when you run into snow banks or anything else and it doesn't matter, is incredible. car cost $900 and lasted 2 years so far. cant say no to that. work is only 2 miles from the house so that helps. the stupid thing only runs on 3 out of 4 cylinders. guess who doesn't care. haha.

What are the specs of the beater?

[MuNkY6913]

Originally Posted by Chrisar82

What are the specs of the beater?

2000 chevy cavalier with a fiber glass hood with huge scoop in it; supercharged, cracked and faded, banner across front windshield; supercharged badge on the trunk = no supercharger and missfire in cyl 1. not fixing it. dash only being held on on the passenger side. with check engine light shining bright. besides that interior is great. no rust. no fluid dripping at all. can tell front end was cut and welded on at some point. perfect for going as fast as i can through snow plow trailings at the bottom of my driveway and sliding into just about anything.